Biz Dev Bunker EP1, The Vulnerable Warrior, Opening your eyes to your weaknesses

“You must remain open-minded, growth-oriented, and vulnerable” – Gino Wickman

Hey everybody, and welcome to the first episode of the Business Development Bunker. What the hell is that? Well, this is, a separate show we’re going to do inside of the podcast. So this is a, a three man endeavor and, what we’re going to talk to about is based on these simple principles.

  • Business development driven from Eos strategy with Angelo Fraboni
  • Sales program development with Brian Schmittdiel
  • Gorilla marketing with Mark Stevens

This applies to any small business out there, but I would say, you know, there’ll be a special nod towards the industries that are always dealing with the headwind like the firearms industry. Where people aren’t going to take your money to advertise there. There’s just some more difficulty around it. There’s lot of red tape or the political atmosphere. So having said that, we’re going to open this up today with talking about the sort of early chapters of the EOS strategy in the book called traction.

Books referenced in this Podcast can be found here!


Mark: Oh yeah. All right. Hey everybody, and welcome to the first episode of the Business Development Bunker. What the hell is that? Well, this is, uh, a separate show we’re going to do inside of the global podcast. And, um, we’ll talk a little bit about the principles of that and why we’re doing that here in a second. But you can expect to see these shows, you know, uh, let’s say two to three times a month, something like that inside of the normal Cindy cast stuff, which will be the, you know, the conversation about influence and marketing and the shooting space. But we’re really wanting to open up this conversation to a wider audience and a larger group of people, plus bring some other expertise that frankly, I just don’t have the marketplace. So this is a, a three man endeavor. And, uh, what we’re going to talk to about is, uh, based on these simple principles.

Mark: So first one is business development driven from Eos strategy with Angelo for bony. So, Hey Angelo. Hey, I was really good man. Um, and then, uh, second, uh, gentleman that we’ll be adding is, uh, our friend Brian Schmidt deal and he’s gonna be, you know, really driven on the sales program development side of things. How are you doing Brian? Excellent. Really Great. And then of course, I’ll be bringing the down and dirty in the gutter, gorilla marketing part of this, uh, to the, to the conversation. And really, um, this applies to any business out there, any small business out there, but I would say, you know, there’ll be a special nod towards the industries that are always dealing with the headwind like the firearms industry. You know, where people aren’t going to take your money, right to advertise there. There’s just some more difficulty around it. There’s some added a headwind and wait for getting things done just because there’s a lot of red tape or the political atmosphere. So having said that, we’re going to open this up today with, um, talking about the sort of early chapters of the Eos strategy in the book called traction. So, Brian, do you want to kind of start us off on all that?

Brian: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, you traction is the, uh, the book by Gino Wickman. Um, and it’s getting a grip on your business and it uses a framework or operating system called Eos, the entrepreneurial operating system. And there’s six components of the operating system, vision, your data, your process, traction issues and people. And these are all components that kind of make up an operating system. Um, I would say that one of the key, uh, things that within a business is that you have multiple people, uh, at your top level, whether it’s the business owner in some key leadership team members and it, in a lot of cases, they’re not all speaking the same language. They’re not all rowing in the right direction. Um, you know, one of the Jim Collins good to great, right? He says in his book, if you have the right people on the bus, then the problem on how to motivate and manage these people, that goes away. So you have a bus and you’re all going in the right direction, you know, um, the, the metaphor of, you know, I’ll be in, in a boat and rowing in the row in the same direction is, is key. So in the early chapters of, of traction, then, you know, Gina Wickman kind of breaks down the operating system and, and how that kind of a role revolves around those six components. Um, and then it kind of dives into the vision component

Mark: really great. So what Brian is pointing to here is a book that all of us have read. Um, I’m going to just be straight with you. I haven’t read it in a couple of years, but I’ve run my business on it. I know you guys at Apex Development Group are, are using this as your model that you’re for yourselves, but also bringing that to your clients. But what this is in a book, everybody should get, you just got to check this book out, is a framework for how to have this conversation that leads you to, you know, inevitably towards the goals and what’s going to take to get there. Right? And all of the books we mentioned today will be available. I’m at the Amazon influencer page, which is Forward slash shop, Ford Slash Hawkeye Ordinance three guys. So, Yup. Shameful Plug. All right. Anyway, um, so good. So let’s get into the, a little bit about, um, well there’s, there’s a chapter before the vulnerability piece. Yeah. We’re going to get there. Realty people. Um, and, and what is he, how do they set that up,

Brian: you know? Um, yeah, so letting go of the vine, uh, I think it’s chapter two in the book. Um, and it’s really, uh, the focus of that chapter is as entrepreneurs and business owners, um, especially when you talk about, you know, um, just running and gun in and building your business and making a profit and, you know, you, you know, you’re trying to figure out five years later like, why did I, what am I doing and why, you know, how did they get here? Um, but the, I think we’re all, um, you know, uh, you know, in our own box or in our own heads and it’s hard for us to be, uh, open minded, um, and vulnerable. Those are two, I think just attributes that some of us aren’t focused on. We lack those and, and just, uh, kind of stepping back and looking at your business and just being, um, you know, remaining open handed or open-minded and growth oriented and vulnerable are things that we all could, um, you know, take to the bank and work on. And so it talks about, um, after the, you know, it talks about the operating system and how that can be applied to the business and then, and then being open minded, growth oriented and vulnerable are things that you kind of have to, to kind of be in that framework as you dive into, you know, kind of peeling away this onion of your business.

Mark: Yeah. That’s good. So real quickly, let’s just step back into this, um, a little bit. Cause, uh, one of the great accesses for people to something that they’re like, they just don’t have in their life. Like vulnerability is like all the things that are not vulnerability. So I will speak to myself is that, you know, I’m here, I’m, I’m a very small shop. It’s, it’s me one other full time employee and then I use virtual assistants so I don’t have a lot of outside. Right. And so, you know, here I am, if you’re watching this on video, I’m in my space where I do a lot of my work. Uh, I’m staring at the machine. My girlfriend comes home at the end of the day and it takes me a minute to like, remember that she’s not a computer. I can’t put in input and get output and um, I just get so blind blind, you know, to like just, you know, what are the horses blinders, right. You know, where it’s just like, I just don’t see the outside world. It’s not so much that I’m tunnel vision, tunnel vision. Thank you. It’s not so much, I’m not a vulnerable human being. It’s that like, I don’t even know what, I don’t know.

Angelo: No. Would it look for [inaudible] or you can also create an echo chamber on yourself. I mean, there is something to be said about you need to surround yourself with people that think the same way that you do, but not the, not to the extent that you have a bunch of yes men around you. And that’s where we can, we kind of get in our ways. And one of the things about businesses, especially small business, um, and we touched on this in the last podcast was oftentimes business owners get into business by mistake. So they’re really good at something and then all of a sudden someone starts paying them for that and then they go, Huh, yeah, we a real thing here. And then 10 years later, like, oh, Geez, I’ve been in business for 10 years. And so I love about what I love about Eos and just traction is it helps you really take a holistic approach and just make sure that you’re not forgetting anything in general that you should be thinking about this really good. I mean if you’d just read, you know, I’m just looking at the book here, you read the first, uh, the first couple of chapters I get through the vision a, you’ll fill up basically a 10 year plan and you’re 90% better than most business owners right there.

Mark: Correct. Well, and another thing that’s just absolutely not vulnerability is if you have a really great product and no one’s buying it and you all, you, there’s gotta be some sticktuitiveness, right? Cause you know, you’ve got to create a space. Sometimes the product is, is really innovative and, and the market doesn’t know it needs it yet. So, so we’re not saying bail, but one other way to know that, you know, real good indicator that you’re not vulnerable is that like you have this awesome idea and no one’s buying it.

Angelo: Yeah.

Mark: Right? And that’s, that’s not to say you’re, yes, man, I can, I can pay you $50,000 a year to tell me my idea is good. Right. That’s not hard. But like really legitimately, um, the market ain’t buying it.

Angelo: Right. And that’s the thing too, win in business. You know, not to go off on two’s hand two minutes and just put up the market doesn’t lie every time we’re going to lie to you. If no one’s buying it, well, they’re not buying it for a reason. Maybe just, maybe they literally just don’t know about it. Yeah, your marketing sucks, or maybe it’s too expensive. Well then fix the manufacturer or, you know, a whole slew and it was the wrong color, you know? Uh, but you know, there’s a whole different reasons why that can happen and just being open to shaking that tree, not why, and even trying to do some different forms of testing. Just to figure that up.

Brian: That reminds me, um, three years ago, uh, at shot show range day, then one of the, um, early adopters of hyper fire triggers, and I say early, I mean, it was three years ago, so it wasn’t that early. But, um, this guy named Logan, just a tall drink of water, big guy, you know, he’s x ranger x special forces guy. And I, you know, I’d had a couple of phone calls with him, emails, whatever they, you know, they were, uh, he had his own business called the sites of action, right. Huge, like influencers on social media. But their business revolved around tactical, um, executive like protection. In fact, they even like, um, they augmented secret service on, I know like Trump visits to the St Louis area. I think they were based out of St Louis, but just cool dudes. Right. And he grabs me and he pulled me aside and he said something to me that’s just stuck with me forever. And then I even had to grab the owner of hyper fight and bring him over cause I was like, man, you got to hear this. And he goes, you have the motherfucking best trigger that nobody’s ever heard about, you know, just replace trigger or with anything. Right. And turn your product there. Yup. Yup. Insert product there. It was just funny and just the way that, the amount of energy that he said, it just was like, oh yeah. So kind of just, you know, hitting what your point is. Yeah. I mean,

Mark: well, it’s easy to get lost. I mean it’s really actually very simple. It’s probably always price, right? Product or proof or a promotion, right? It’s always one of those things, you know? And in generally speaking, we get lost in like I’ve got the best product in the world and promoting the hell out of it. Yeah. But the, you know, you’re selling it for two 50 in the market saying one 99 95 is all you know, is what a high end trigger goes for. In this example, you’re always going to come up loss. Cause when you’re on that little bar at the top of Google with triggers for sale and every other one is 190 995 and yours is two 50 you might get an at bat. But ultimately $50 is nothing to shake a stick at for most of the people in our industry. Right?

Mark: So there you go. It’s price. It’s just real simple. And you’ve got it that the trigger is worth 250 bucks. Okay. Let’s find out why. I mean, you guys are working with one of our clients right now and it’s dealing seriously with, um, with, uh, how they got to their pricing structures, right? And it’s like inside of that space, it’s not that they didn’t, they were wrong, they just didn’t know. And that’s a huge amount of vulnerability for them, like massive to let you know, uh, a couple of guys come in and get under the hood, look at how they were doing things and um, and say, hey, you’re just, you’re overpriced and here’s how you got there. You took a left turn right here and you really, you know, you really should have gone right. Right. Yup. And that’s really what we’re pointing to with vulnerability. It’s not like crying on the floor, although I’ve done that in business too.

Mark: But it’s really about, um, you know, accepting that maybe you’re not the smartest asshole in the room. And if you are, you gotta get into a bigger room. Right. And if you are, that’s really good. Angela, if you are, get the bigger room. So Angelo tell me like, so you’re, you’ve got the most experience implementing this, this program. Like maybe walk us through a little bit at what like, um, okay, you had them read the book, right? And they were like, skip to chapter three cause the chapter two says vulnerability. Um, they, they use getting rid of the vines or whatever, which is just code for becoming vulnerable. Right? Yeah. But how do you bring people to that? Like how do you get a, there’s three, eight type dudes on this conversation right here. Uh, how do you get them to that place where they can hear what they, you know, to even hear the message?

Angelo: Well, tact one, what, you can’t come out and tell someone that they’re not being vulnerable because they’re going to tell you to go pawn Sam. Um, no, but I think, I think most, most people are self aware enough to do that. If they’re not where they want to be in their business, there’s probably a reason for it. Um, and, and most, you know, I’d say most people are self aware enough to be responsible where they’re like, yeah, I’m the business owner. We’re not where we want it to be because of me. Um, and so just helping people, you know, Brian and I’ve worked with a couple of initial clients and we’ve had to keep saying it’s probably just more for our benefit where we’re, we’re trying to tell them like, we’re not here cause you’re doing something wrong. We’re not here because you failed along the way.

Angelo: Things suck. You know, there’s, it’s a dumpster fire, like you’re doing things very well. Some things that we can also do very well that will help launch you. And so I think just, just helping, um, kind of take that full look at where the business is at and where they’re trying to go and that, that’ll lead us into our goals conversation. Um, that’s going to be a huge, a huge part of all of this. But when I think about looking at vulnerability, I think it comes with information because the more information you can start to uncover, you know, where they have to stop working in the business and start working on the business, that’s where you, that’s what you serve and covering these things because most of the time we don’t take the time to realize those things anyway. So that’s where you just ask a lot of questions. In that first sort of two page, it’s called the ETL division, traction organizer that asks, you know, what are your core values, your core focus, the three year picture, 10 year, you know, 10 year target and all this. I mean, it just helps you face a lot of the information you should be facing as a business owner. And then once you start realizing, wow, I’ve actually never thought about who my court or my target market is. Great. You’ve identified something, let’s figure that out. And let’s, uh, let’s go after that.

Mark: Could you, could you roll back a sec and spend a couple of minutes on the difference between working in your business and working on your business?

Angelo: Yeah. And I hope I’m not interchanging these terms, but when I, when working in your business, that’s, I am on my machine, I’m on the lave, I’m turning screws, I’m turning wrenches. Like I’m doing product development. This is work that’s going on inside of my business. That’s generating revenue. Yeah. Working on the business now it’s where I take a step back, I call my executive team together, go out for beers or we just take the time and we’re not doing anything that’s directly related to getting product out the door. But we’re taking a look at, Hey, here’s our quarterly for the year, here’s where we want to be. Here’s what I want to be three years from now. Are we on plan? And what sort of changes, what sort of modifications, what sort of improvements that we need to make on the business so that when we worked in the business we’re more effective.

Mark: Okay. Really good. Because it’s, I think I, I, you know, I got it and I know that over here where I’m sitting, um, it’s very hard for me to tell the difference cause I wear so many hats. So like, you know, I’m a, it’s very clear to me that I’m doing social media for a client that’s working in the business. Correct. Designing like longterm planning that’s very obvious, that’s working on the business where it gets muddy is like when I’m creating maybe a new system and I’m, I’m doing the media at the same time because I’m creating the system like in real time. Right. Um, that’s where the world gets a little muddy for me. And I think, you know, I could see there being some, um, confusion there about what’s what, right? Yeah.

Angelo: Oh, especially, especially if blurred lines for a solo preneur solo entrepreneurs, small shops. Because everything that you do, you’re doing, whether I’m like filing my taxes and making sure the checks don’t bounce, working on the business, your, your bills or business operation, things to keep the business running, you know, working in the business. It’s kind of like what, what does your business do? Yeah. Doing things that the business does. I make widgets, I’m making widgets and working in the business, but the lines definitely get blurred when I’m doing all of it. I’m answering, I’m customer service, I’m the tax guy,

Brian: right? And fast forward into the people component, you know, within traction in the Eos. Um, you guys are talking about, you know, uh, as a business entrepreneur, that’s the visionary. Yeah. And then underneath that, um, is the integrator, right? So those are two art types are two different types of people, right? And a lot of times in the small business world and you know, as running a solo, you know, business owner, then you’re the visionary and the integrator and your, you know, having to manage kind of both of those components. Um, and you know, it’s smart as a business grows and you start talking about the people component and putting the right people in the right seat. You might have someone that’s within your leadership team that kind of elevates themselves to that integrator. If being vulnerable means as a business owner, you’re identifying that you’re not that integrator type of person, you’re that visionary and you don’t, you lack some of those, um, attributes. You know that putting someone in place on your leadership team that is that integrator and that can help, you know, focus on the business and you can focus in the business.

Mark: Yeah, I just, I just pulled up my original, you know, if, if we put this out on video you can take a look at that. But that’s my original, what we’re talking about is that the structure for your company. Right. And for most of us, like right now, visionary integrator, sales and marketing is all me. Right. And then is my virtual assistant team with the one at and then financial is my bookkeeper, which is my full time employee. Right. Is it? Well she really acts. I literally, I gave her a like she is, if you get an email from me for billing, it’s not from me. It’s, it’s coming from her. Right. And, and so I’ve, I’ve only in this thing, there’s like kind of five core jobs at the top and I’ve only managed to fill one of them with somebody else, you know, and about half with other people. That’s where I’m at today. You know, and I’m on track for my plan inside of that. But that’s, that is where I’m at. Um,

Angelo: a good point of distinction too is, is okay the terms visionary and integrator. Another way that I’ve described it as like your CEO and your c o you know, you’ve got someone who is definitely like visionary, longterm thinker, big picture thinker, can understand, can cast vision, can motivate people. You know, someone who can look at where the business is at currently and not get overwhelmed with the, not where they want to be in three or five years. But they also can see like the, the mountain tops as they’re flying over the integrator or the c Oh, that’s someone who, you know, and there’s not really like the, the visionary isn’t often the integrated integrator is no. The visionary. They really do need to coexist together. Yeah. Because the integrator is someone who actually comes and executes the vision. They’re as important because oftentimes, you know, we’ve seen this where the visionary is that like, Oh, million ideas and look at everything we can do.

Angelo: And you do need someone who can ground that do something visionary just to have for all visionaries. Gosh, it’s going to be fun. Yeah. A ton of ideas. But then if we’re all integrate and we haven’t, we haven’t completed anything because there is no follow through. But then if we’re all integrators, like we might be a little bit more boring and I’m going to, you know, stereotype the two positions. Um, but it’s, it’s a lot more action oriented and oftentimes companies can have major falling outs when there is either unclear roles or division or is trying to be the integrator and the integrators trying to be the visionary. That’s how you see company.

Mark: The odds on you if you’re sitting there at home going, well, I’m a visionary who’s really great at, at, at a, you know, actually having it exist in the world. The odds are you’re lying to yourself. I’ve met very few of the same. I am clearly like a 70, 30, um, visionary, uh, implementer, right? I mean, there’s no doubt I have, I’m really grateful that I’ve got that much implement. Right. Um, but I would much rather, I mean if you gave me my druthers when I got out of bed in the morning and I came down here and sat at the desk, I’d much rather be creating amazing ideas than actually deploying them. Yeah. Um, that, that is just so, you know, this is one of those other things. Uh, you know, bringing it back to vulnerability is like getting that you are not all things to all people.

Mark: You know, there’s a handful of core jobs in business. Um, you know, and we’re, we’re talking about two of them right now, which is thinking and doing to some extent and are creating and doing probably better said, um, and the odds and you being, uh, equal parts, those things are, it’s, I have not seen many, if ever, you know, um, some of that can be learned of course. Like I’ve had to learn to like care about the last, you know, 3 cents of the dollar that I can’t find at the end of the month until I hired somebody to do it. Right. Um, and then there’s these other kind of core jobs around sales. And Marketing, operation and financial that all have to be managed. It might be just you at this point. Right? Um, as an aside, I would, I would argue that adding the financial component, unless you’re, that person first is probably the number one job to fill. We all want to hire talent, but the truth is, is you’re going to go broke if you don’t have somebody to say, you can’t spend that right now. Correct. It looks like this mark, you can’t have a new camera. And I’m like, but I own the company and they’re like, but don’t have the money. I’m like, you don’t understand. I have this great idea and if I don’t have the camera I can’t do the idea. And they’re like, so you can’t do that with your iPhone and the two lumix cameras you bought in January,

Brian: you make a strong point. It’s hard to argue with you when you’re making sense. And that’s generally how my conversations with the CFO go. We had this, we actually had this conversation with one of our clients this morning. No, really? They, um, you know, for all arguments sake, you know, their, they got invited to a big event and you know, which is awesome. So we don’t want to take anything, any, you know, just, you know, by happenstance, a big name company in the industry dropped out and you know, he was able to slide in and you know, all props and just kind of being present and, and just, you know, getting that invite was awesome. But we started kind of walking through like the cost of what it’s going to cost to be there at this event. And you’re going to be there with all the big players.

Brian: I mean, you may make the biggest company insert big company name. You’re going to be right there in between them, right? And so you’re going to show up with, you know, a Walmart canopy tent and some freaking white tables and you know, some Napkins or whatever or you know, you got to spend some money to be there, right? So it’s not just a cost to be there, it’s not just the travel costs, it’s, you know, the ammo. I mean you start adding it up and it’s like, you know, there’s some zeros behind what that budget looks at.

Mark: Forget the money. What I just heard is cost to brand.

Angelo: Yeah. Cause that’s, cause that’s the other thing too where it’s, it’s one thing, this is what it takes to get in the door. But if I’m between industry leader a, an industry leader B and I’m trying to disrupt both of them, I can’t go, I can’t sit between them and not look like I belong.

Mark: Yeah. If it takes a forklift op to set up their booth and you’re rolling out the Walmart special, uh, you

Brian: take a branding. No. Okay. Got It. Cause you’re gonna look like the redheaded stepchild that event. Yeah. I mean perception is, is not everything, but perception is like 98%. Okay. Let’s call it everything. Yeah. So this, this client has disruptive technology, right. And he’s, he’s going to disrupt the marketplace, but nobody’s going to believe you if you’re standing in your Walmart special tent. Yeah. Like I might be able to get away with that at Hawkeye Ordinance. Cause I could just be like, oh, if I could have the big thing. But then the problem is is I couldn’t sell my guns to you for, you know, a thousand bucks less than everybody else’s. And if I’ve got some, like if I’m, let’s just say, you know, hyper fire with those super highly refined technological innovation and you put them out there in a Walmart tent, um, I would, I would argue you are at 100%. Perception is reality at that point. It’s like your trigger is amazing, but dude, you know, are you going to be around next year?

Angelo: Well that’s another, that’s another conversation we have all the time with clients. Is there, there’s something, you know, any opportunity can be a good opportunity like this, this opportunity is an amazing opportunity. It might not be an amazing opportunity right now. Correct. Because what are we doing it at the expense of if, if we’re delaying product roll out, if we’re billing patents, if we’re doing, you know, if we’re delaying something major for this. And then it goes back to our goals, what is our goal of going into the show? Does this match up with their, yes, this might be in our 10 year plan. It might even be in our three year picture. You enter through your picture. We want to be going to major shows, we want to be doing product sponsorships and all of that. But it probably doesn’t fit in with our one year or our 30 day or 90 day. You know, I already is right now

Brian: if anybody took economics in college or even high school, like this is basic economics one-on-one. It’s your opportunity costs, right? That we’re talking about here. So what opportunity cost is, what are you giving up? What are you not doing by going to this event? Right? So for example, like, you know, his website needs a little retool. I mean it, uh, and it’s not going to be expensive, but we’re foregoing the, uh, website updates, the, you know, some of the, the retooling, the, just the infrastructure and the framework of the website, the functionality of it that needs to be worked on like that you can’t do both. So it’s the opportunity costs, you know, and then shot shows around the corner. Right. We’ve talked to him like we have an opportunity to be demoing our product in front of, uh, dealers at shot show. Um, and so this event kind of would, um, overshadow or not overshadow, but you know, it’s, there’s a high high probability that we wouldn’t be able to do both of them. And in fact almost a hundred percent. So it’s like one or the other. You want to be in front of a bunch of youtubers, you want to be a phone in front of a bunch of dealers, you know, two months later. I got it. Yup. Really Great. So what we just really just uncovered here, just to get us back on track a little bit, is significant

Mark: vulnerability for a lot of small enterprise, which is the opportunity costs. You don’t have the cash. You know, I’m like, look, I like one of the things that I’ve, I’m, I’ve had three or four opportunities in the last two years. It, where if I had 25 grand loose and floating around that I could live without for a year, um, I could buy, you know, like literally I could sweep in right now to like this conversation we just had and say, does 25 grand solve that problem? Nurse terms, right. I get that. I might lose my money. It’s called Angel Investment. Right. And I’m going to come in, I’m gonna, I want, I want you to have that opportunity cost and I’m, I want to see 10% of my money in, in 12 months. Something like that. Right. You know, if you can make that happen, then I’ll write the check.

Mark: Um, and that’s like, it’s in my 10 year plan is to have that kind of money cause I’m around, um, small enterprise so much that like, you know, and believe me, every one of my clients, I could have said at one point, I’ll buy that. You want to put you wanna bring that to market. I’ve got the cash to capitalize that. Yup. Um, but like this is one of my vulnerabilities, right? Like those are some missed opportunities for sure. Cause actually four out of five of them would have paid off. Yeah. Um, you know, as I look in the future, cause we got ’em all done. Like by like, you know, bootstrapping the thing, you’d have a magic eight ball that you shook. I didn’t, I didn’t, I just tend to like, I tried to pick winning ponies for this 10 year plan to buy my 10 year plan is to have like a handful of winning ponies.

Mark: Right. And that’s it. But I mean as a marketing company, look, I mean a, that’s a vulnerability of mine is like if I take on somebody like I have, you know, I really want to work with x client because I love them. Yeah. They’re amazing people. I want to be around them. Like I want to have that phone call at nine in the morning with those guys. That’s who I want to go to work with. Ability of mine is that I can’t be things to all people and it’s really easy for me to not be vulnerable and just be like, I want that. I give me that. Right. Um, but what we’re pointing to is, is these are vulnerabilities in your business and if you can’t be vulnerable about them, you can get in this position where like these guys, you know, you guys are talking about right now hours, let’s just say you capitalize it yourself.

Mark: You take the risk, it doesn’t pay off. Now you’re a year behind on your website, your in the same Rut you were. And you know, Amex keeps calling you because they’re like, Hey, you’re neg 25 k, you know, and that’s like, that’s like your vacation following you home. You ever heard that term before? Like where you put the whole thing on a credit card and then you come home and you’re paying for it til like three or four months later and you’re like, Oh God, you’re February, so you’re December. So yes, I know. So, uh, if I’m, if I’m being vulnerable, I will tell you that I just had my first vacation. That will does not going to follow me home. Whoa. Yeah, I know. That’s true. That’s not to say that like we, you know, I do my best to practice what I preach, but the truth is, is I’m human and I want, did you Dave Ramsey it? No. Yeah, I do know who Dave Ramsey financial peace university. So you don’t spend money don’t have, so

Brian: we use this like envelope system. So like if you want to take that vacation started envelopes or putting cash in and every month and then 10 years you might be able to take the vacation.

Mark: Mark’s going to have his $25,000 Angel Investment. Oh yeah, dude, you just like rolling out 25 large bro. What do you need? But the know, to be honest with you, I mean this is a total aside, but my, you’re not shocking a belief that this works. But my girlfriend said in January we’re going to go on a vacation in July. And I’m like, what? Like when vacations, six months out, seven months out. I’m like, that’s it. That’s a real thing. And it’s like, it’s a real thing. And we bought plane tickets and we had some loose cash at the end of January, blah, blah, blah. We needed like 500 in cash or something for the whole trip because they were a family home. And, um, and like we had it all and I went on vacation and I came home and I’m like, God, there’s no debt. It’s awesome. And like, and again, that was me. Yeah, I know. I’m like, well dude, I take no credit. She’s just smarter than I am. That’s all it is. But I mean, there’s some truth

Brian: to that. My wife, like if she’s spending her money, it’s crazy. But if she’s like managing our money, then she’s really good about it because maybe there’s some accountability there. When when we were saving for our wedding, then I put her in charge. So she’s a CFO of Mattel LLC. Right. And Yeah, and we were able to save all the money. I mean, it was like 12 grand or 12, $15,000 in 12 months, um, with like, and it’s like, how do we pull the rabbit out of that hat because it’s like you didn’t have much money, but when you start like, you know, figuring out, having a plan, a strategy, put her in charge of my money, then we worked out a goal.

Mark: Yeah. No, that’s really good. And I mean, I think we’re, we’re obviously a segwaying off track a little bit, but I, I don’t think it’s a bad conversation to have as like, you know, look, you know, you’re human and I don’t know what you guys and your business structure looks like and whoever out there is listening to this. But mine has been sole proprietorships up until, you know, we’re in the process now of transitioning that cause to have no market acquired means I can’t be a sole proprietor anymore. Right. And that is one of the tools in my company. No mark required. Like that way I can do the visionary stuff, you know, is, um, is that, um, I’ve got to move to an LLC or s Corp, we’re still working all that out right now, but as a sole proprietor, my vacation budget and my marketing budget, there are about one degree of separation away from each other. And a lot of the guys and gals that are listening to this conversation right now are, can totally relate to this. So like, I can screw up my vacation and have an impact on my marketing budget. Yeah. Wonderful vulnerability right there. Boom. There’s one of my businesses, right? Yeah.

Mark: That’s the thing. These are the things we, you know, we’re talking about looking at and being vulnerable about like mark, that doesn’t work. It just lacks integrity, not as a moral issue. It just lacks integrity. That is a, that is a bicycle missing. A couple of spokes find to ride down to the grocery store, but terrible. The Tour de France. Bingo. There you go. Yeah. And that’s really what we’re looking at here is there’s nothing you’ve, you know, if you’re listening to this right now and you’re like, Holy Shit, I’m off the reservation. No, we’re not coming into this from a place of being wrong cause make wrong isn’t going to do anything is zero. You know, do not bring make wrong to Your Business and what you’ve done so far cause that then all you can do is resist the make wrong. But we’re talking about it.

Mark: It’s like a whole new possibility for what’s available in your business. And it’s gonna take something to get there. I’ve been treasurer probably, but ultimately the starting point is this conversation around being vulnerable and getting to what? So yeah, just not the story around it, but this is what I have. This is the people involved, this is the building, these are the three computers. Like this is what’s so about my company. And from there we can then create something, right? Because if we get to what, so we get to empty and we’re not like, well I’m a bad person cause I haven’t hired x, Y and Z and I don’t have a CFO and blah, blah, blah, then all we’re going to do is argue about why you don’t have that thing, not the actual thing we need to deal with, which is, hey, we need 12 months to work that out.

Angelo: Well, honestly, one of the one word Brian and I usually start, if we’re talking to a potential client for the first time, the first question we always ask is, who are you now and who are you trying to become good? Because they’re probably not the same thing. I guarantee you they’re not the same thing. Um, but most of the time it’s really easy for us to be like, oh, I want to be, this is where I want to be. But you also need to identify who you are now because that’s the kind of what you’re building off of. And then it’s easier for you to really look at that and then make changes, you know, cut where you need to cut. Build what you need to build, kind of maintain what you need to maintain. Um, and that just comes with identifying, and it comes back to Marco while we were talking earlier where, how, how do you, how do you really kind of encourage that vulnerability? It’s, it’s, it comes with information that comes with education. It comes with really shine the light on things. And so just really kind of establishing that where it’s like, all right, who are we as a company? Like what’s, what’s our core focus right now? What do we think our core values are? Where do we think we want to be? You know, what’s our, you know, ask me some of these initial questions. What do we currently do now? And then where do we want to be and what do we need to pay to get there?

Mark: I just got to read this Carl Young quote, and I just heard it the other day, is the most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely. Say it again. The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely just as it is. And just as it isn’t, that takes a remarkable amount of vulnerability as a strength, not as a weakness. You know, like, uh, if the, you know, a lot of us here that are listening to this, probably in Minnesota, in the Midwest, right? Cause it’s kind of our core business, our core sphere, you know, you drive by the reed beds, um, and favorite lake and they’re vulnerable as hell. And they just kind of do the thing. The wind is, you know, bopping them around and they always come back, right? But if they were to like ridge it up, as soon as the strong wind comes, they break, right?

Mark: And the reed that doesn’t have a story about why they do what they do, right? They are just that this is what it takes to survive, right. And to live life. And so, you know, if we could get a whole group of clients to a place where they just got to like the what, so about their business, their life, what they’re dealing with, without all the like stories about why it got that way or the market socks or blah, blah, blah, you know, and we all got a bunch of bullshit stories. So if you don’t think you have them, then the first bullshit story is that you don’t have a bullshit story. And because you’re human, it comes with the hardware between your ears. Right? But if you could accept everything about yourself, what’s selling, what’s not from there, you could build anything. Absolutely. Anything. If it’s cool. All right, good. So

Brian: no, Hey, just before, yes. Segway. Yeah. Carl Young, uh, our types. I think that could be a spin off on the next podcast. I’d love to just dive into that, but let’s do it. Um, just, you know, we, we’re talking about identity, we’re talking about core values. We’re talking about, um, you know, who are you now in? Who Do you want to be? Right? When you look at Carl Young’s, what is it, the, the circle, the golden circle, you know, yet what are the three layers of that people buy, why you do what you do. And so there’s like the what and then there’s the how and then there’s a little y, right? So if you actually dive into, um, kind of his philosophy around that, people are buying the why of your business and that that dives right into that hits home with like who you are, you know, your core values, your identity, you know, um, you know, who you’re trying to be as a business and, and just, you know, and again, just focusing on this, uh, this identity of your business and the core values and whatnot. Immune is fear. I mean, you know, the goal of every business is to make money, right? And how do you do that? I mean you, but people buy your product or your service. And how do they do that? I mean, in focusing on your identity as a business.

Mark: Well you take young and then later on you just to get philosophical for a moment is there’s a whole nother group of people that came along later and they were looking at ontology, the science of being. And they would say that underlying all of those things, the WHO, the why, the what, all of that is a way of being and you can’t escape it. The context is decisive, right? And so if your way of being like for example is, is that there is um, a lack, right, that there’s not enough of something, a scarcity way of being, we could try to build anything you want on top of that. But if you are being that there’s scarcity in the marketplace, you will always end up with scarcity in the marketplace. It’s inescapable cause your context for your business. I just, one thing I like about eos is they do a really good job of helping you get to the being like who, who you say you are and then you know, we can test for that, right?

Mark: Like does the market agree with you for example. But if you have it that and if the market doesn’t agree with you, you might want to look either you’re not who you say are or the way you are being underneath that because the market can smell it. You know, if you were living in a scarcity world and here’s how it looks to them, you have the hottest rifle in the whole world but you can’t deliver it for like 12 months. I would argue that somewhere in there as a, as a way of being that is driving a scarcity mindset around the business place cause you’re just not keeping enough material on the shelf to actually have that month, that rifle pistol you named the deal deliver, right, whatever widget x on the shelf. Right. It’s really, it’s fascinating. We should totally get into this but I think we’ve, we’ve gotten my fault entirely but we’ve, we’ve definitely taken a left turn. I had one job, mark, I had one job so let’s, let’s, I’m good. Is there anything else anybody wants to say about all that? Cause I think we could do a really cool demonstration and vulnerability here if, unless there’s a loop to be closed. Really good. Okay. Just so you know, they can’t hear you when you nod your head. [inaudible]

Mark: I didn’t, you know, we’ve got this, you know, video going in this zoom thing. I’m not sure if you were going to play the video. It’s great TV and terrible radio. The court reporter show that Brian is nodding in the affirmative. All right, good. So the next podcast we’re going to do is on actually getting into the goal side of this. And Angela, if you could give us a little color on why that would be the first thing we’re doing.

Angelo: Yeah. Goals. I mean, I can’t understate this enough. Goals are, it’s what it needs to be your filter. Um, Brian, you know mark, we’ve worked, we’ve talked to them for what, a couple of months now. You’ve probably heard me say it a couple of times. I’ve talked Brian Zero off this all the time. He’ll ask me any question, question in business. And the first thing I asked him is, well, what’s your goal? And the reason that is, is because, you know, like we were talking about people can get into business on accident, people could get into business. You know, there’s oftentimes like, oh, I make widget x, I just need to make more of which it x cheaper widget x and make widget x, Y, and z. You know? And it’s like, well, why? It’s like, well, because that’s what, that’s what people want. They want, which of x, Y, and z will, is that w is that what you’re trying to accomplish?

Angelo: So just goals. You cannot make a decision. Let’s just, I’ll use an example. It’s gonna be a bad one. But if we’re trying to go to Hawaii, I don’t, and if we’re trying to go somewhere, actually, if we don’t know where we’re going, how do we know the vehicle that we need to go in and we need a boat. Do we need an airplane? Do we need a four wheeler? And then which direction should we go? And so if you don’t understand what your primary motivators are and what you’re actually trying to accomplish, anything is an option. And so a goal, what all the goal will help you do is just filter out the noise and help keep you focused on what’s important and help you make, you know, impactful decisions.

Mark: Really good. All right, good. So I got that man. It’s a pretty good, I mean, that’s like, it’s spitting in the wind. If you’re just, you’re just running, you know, and then you’re burning up energy and you’re not getting in the right direction, um, matter how bad you might want the shiny squirrel. Um, your job is to be profitable.

Angelo: Yeah. And there’s, there’s, so, like I said, there are so many options you can do in business there. They’re probably all really good options if that’s your goal. Um, and so your like, mark, your business is different than your competitors. Business is different than someone in a different industries. Business all have the same options for things that you can do and they, none of the 10 are going to be wrong for you because they don’t help you accomplish your primary goals.

Mark: Yeah, totally. Well and look, I mean even if you were like, okay, so our goal is to flood the market place with a bazillion options, what you might select a very different material because you can’t do that with the highest cost material, right? So you would accept maybe a B products. You could do a a million B products or verses like one or two products that you’re going to only buy the best materials possible. You know, cause that’s just what you can afford. So we’ve got this podcast called the business development bunker and uh, what’s our goal for this reais type personalities coming together to create one goal? It’s getting real Meta. Yeah. On the podcast. Well, I will just bring one thing from my side of the business, uh, you know, is, you know, I am that we do things about accessibility. Like we’re bringing a testability to people.

Mark: Um, I got really straight with that actually working with you guys and that’s made a big, big difference. Right? Um, yeah, huge difference. Uh, you know, I mean, I’m writing a book cause of it. Like, you know, that was, I was like, oh, it’s about assessability I just need to open this up to people who don’t use youtube, um, to find out how to get started. They want to read it. Okay, good. You know, let’s just do that. So I’m like, what, what do we, that’s what I’d like to add to the framework. So whatever it looks like, I’d like our goal to be accessible to as many people as possible.

Angelo: Yeah. Yeah. When I think about our goal, you know, talking about getting a little vulnerable to, um, one of, I think the one of the voices in my head and mark, you have a hundred out of a hundred business owners have this voice in their head that tells me that I am not good enough to do this. Totally. Why would people pay me to do this? And why would people listen to me? And so there’s that part of part of my head where it’s like, I like the idea of peeling back the curtain, showing people that it’s not as scary as it needs to be and that there’s just, there’s real work that goes into, um, there’s real work that goes into the decision makings and it’s not a, and sometimes, you know, there are specific laws, um, but even just showing people what it looks like behind the curtain and how this is just a real, real conversation.

Mark: Yeah. That, that conversation from not good enough, by the way, a is just generated by the, uh, massive, uh, cells you have between your ears and throat. And it, it’s, there’s no, there’s no Angelo required to have that thought by the way. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s, it’s, it’s, yeah, that’s really good. But like

Brian: brilliant add to that too is, you know, I think it would be who of us who heard, understood, acknowledge, that’s a military acronym, but a, it would be who of us to just, you know, open this up to as a, as a platform for us to learn as business owners, as entrepreneurs. Now we’re in the business of, I think, you know, broadcasting accessibility, right? We’re, we’re trying to what? Educate, entertain, engage. You know, we want people to listen and share if they want. Right? And if they learned something from it, we want feedback, but we also want to learn from them. Like, so if we’re talking out, off way, off basis, right? Or we want to be able to open up a forum where people can maybe ask questions, right? Hey listen, you said this on your last podcast. Can you dive into that a little bit more? Or, you know, help me understand, you know, this x, Y,Z , or hey, in my experience, here’s a testimonial of what happened or what, you know, how this has proven, you know, either wrong or correct, or here’s a positive story that we can, you know, use to kind of prop up what we’re trying to do here.

Angelo: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of having that community engagement too, is kind of our goal. You know, I think a nice goal for this is, is like your accessibility thing. You know, we all do this for a living, you know, this, these are things that we will do for a living. At the same time, I really believe, and I think the two of you really believe in this too is, is giving away a lot of what we know for free. Like there is, there’s so much benefit that we can have have just by engaging the audience, getting an actual question, hey this is specifically in my business that I’m understanding now, what, what do you think about that? And just like, sweet, let’s talk about it. And just having different ways of looking at it and holding opinions loosely, you know, and just the, being able to really, really get into some live fire situations with people. Um, and just this is just a roundtable bunker discussion. So

Mark: totally, no, and that’s really great too. So, um, just to wrap up some of the words I got there was engagement, community accessibility. I also would add actionable, um, you know, um, it’s really and like support. Yeah. Right. So cause really like we’re just three guys having a conversation. But you know, much like the podcast, I generally, the Cindy cast show is, I generally invite people on, I want to talk to and you know, I want to have this conversation like with you guys a couple weeks ago it was like, I got you on. And I was like, okay good. There’s a whole bunch of stuff that I did traction by myself from the book and I got a result. It was actually a decent result, but it wasn’t as you know. And then all of a sudden I’d talked to you guys, I’m like, oh, oh I didn’t even, I didn’t even look in that closet, you know, and I’m, and so we got a new result. Right. And um, it should be interesting. So our goal is to provide a community with solid, actionable business conversations available to anyone.

Brian: And w just the sidestep too. I mean this, you can apply a lot of the concepts and methodologies that we talk about. Just your personal life, right? Yeah. I’m just having a plan. So funny thing is like my wife and I have actually done a 10 year target, a three year plan in a one year or a three year picture when you’re planning, I mean, building these fundamental goals, uh, as our family, family goals, financial goals as our family that we use the eos system to operate our, our family, uh, business or family plan. And so we’re communicating the same message. We’re rowing in the right direction. You know, it’s a, it’s not a tug of war.

Angelo: Well that’s really good. My wife and I do that every November where we get away for a couple of days and we do some family planning for the year and every year we set our, the core values that we want to focus on as a family for the year. And there’s a lot of repeat in them. But you know, for this year we do a lot of real estate investing. This year we took an entire year off. We’re just like, this is just a year off for us. So let’s, let’s focus on rest in the real estate world. And I’m so, yeah, this is, that’s there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of carry over. This isn’t just like if you’re a firearms company in the manufacturing industry, this applies to you. It’s like, no, this has a lot of wide ranging implications and just think about this and your everyday life is really impactful.

Mark: I don’t do any family planning. I just expect all of them to get in line. Right. Mark Your inbox. Oh, that’s what I heard you guys were like, well I do dude. I get together with my wife and we discuss everything. Okay, we’re excited. Sign the heart here, honey. You’re making three copies, you know, dead New York shirt. Yes, I got that. All right, well I’ll take that on that on this year for sure. Right. So I’m for sure I will. Um, but I’ve also been single for the last while, right. And I’ve got, I’ve now got a relationship that is, um, you know, at a level that I’d like to have that conversation. It’s just hasn’t occurred to me yet to have that conversation. So I’ll do that. I’ll take that on this fall for sure. That’s awesome. Challenge you to do that. Got It. Good. That’s a challenge to everybody else out there. I mean, there’s plenty out there that are more in my camp than these two bullshit artists. Yes, you guys are actually taking care of their wives. They’re lying.

Mark: This is to migrate matter over here is going, that’s not possible. There’s no way our to self important for that. Um, ugh. God, I’m talking to myself. This has been another awesome conversation guys. So, um, I hope you all liked, uh, the first episode, official episode of the Business Development Bunker. I would urge you to go back and listen to the other podcasts, um, that I did under the Cindy cast name with Angelo and Brian and a, we’re gonna, we’re gonna keep doing this. We’re just gonna, you know, I don’t know where it goes, but, um, we got a goal, we’ve got a name and we’ve got some principles to work from, which are the, you know, Angelo bringing the Eos strategy. Brian really bringing the sales and program and development to us and me bringing the guerrilla marketing. Of course there’s a lot of crossover in there.

Mark: Um, and I think if we, um, cross train each other online, um, and really listen to our audience, that would be amazing. So if you have questions or comments or anything about this show, what I’d like you to do is, uh, you know, wherever you find this on Facebook or you find it, um, at the Hawkeye Syndicate page. I don’t know if we have a blog ready for apex development group, but we’ll get that organized so we can share this info everywhere. Um, put in the comment and one of us is going to answer you, um, you know, as quick as we possibly can and if you’ve got ideas about shows you’d like to hear, um, certainly that’d be another great thing we’d love to hear. Um, and then finally, um, you know, in the, in the, in the a world of what we say, which is that this is accessible and for everyone, uh, we’re not gonna charge anything for this show.

Mark: You know, where there’s not going to be a bunch of advertising at the beginning of the show. Obviously we have some places that we do monetize, they might get mentioned. Um, but, um, the economy we want a a pedal in is that if you got something out of this episode, share it with somebody who would benefit, right? Bring them into the community, bring them into the conversation so that all of us, this is your show guys. I mean, we’re going to, we’re going to prime the pump here with some conversations, but ultimately you want this to be your show. And, um, and I think that falls in line with our goals pretty effectively. So holy crap, another hour spent. I hope you all are. Well, uh, Angela, Brian, we’ll see on the next one. Everybody else. God bless. That was great. Yup.